Transcript lezing Edwin Vieira


Het volgende is een transcript van een lezing gehouden door Edwin Vieira op initiatief van Ron Paul voor een publiek van staffers van leden van het US Congress (link)

Lecture 2/3

What Is Constitutional Money? (01:01:57)

Presentation: I'm Lydia Mashburn, Policy Director for Chairman Ron Paul's Subcommittee on Domestic Monetary Policy. On behalf of Congressman Ron Paul and his office, welcome to the second of our afternoon tea lecture series on the basic principles of money. Today's question is going to be What Is Constitutional Money? This is following up our first lecture which was What Is Money? At that lecture – if you missed it – we had Professor Joe Salerno come and talk about money. Essentially money is a natural market driven phenomenon that fulfill the properties of indirect exchange. So money is a commodity. Throughout history various things have filled the role of money: salt, leather, cattle, and of course silver and gold. If money is a natural market driven phenomenon, why is it that governments are so involved in money? Which brings us to today's question What is constitutional money? The Founders had a very particular understanding of money, based on their own historical circumstances and some disastrous experiments with money that governments did. Based on this understanding they put in provisions in the constitution, to help ensure sound money existed throughout our great nation. Unfortunately those provisions have been either misinterpreted, misunderstood, or completely forgotten. And I'd say today, we've completely forgotten why the Founders put in certain provisions or what their understanding of those provisions was. So I'm delighted to say that we have to talk to us about constitutional money, Dr. Edwin Vieira, Jr. Dr. Vieira holds four degrees from Harvard, including his J.D. as well as his Ph. D. He is also the author of this lovely work Pieces of Eight, this is two volumes, more than 1700 pages, on constitutional money. The full title is Pieces of Eight. The Monetary Powers and Disabilities of the US Constitution. To give a sort of a Cliff's Notes version of his magnum opus he'll be answering the question What Is Constitutional Money? Please join me in welcoming Dr Ed Vieira.

Edwin Vieira: (00:03:06)Thank you, Lydia. Thank you Ladies and Gentlemen.
What Is Constitutional Money? covers essentially three centuries of American history, so put your seat belts on, we're gonna have a very fast flight. And as Lydia pointed out, governments have historically become involved in monetary questions and the reason for that, basically, is redistribution of wealth. Whoever controls the substance and the supply of money at the source, can do a great deal of redistributing wealth, either directly through government expenditures or indirectly through government involvement with the private sector. So keep that in mind as we go through some of these historical principles.
The Colonial Period
Now, to understand the Constitution one has to do more than simply read it. You have to put yourself in historical context of “We the People” – The People: the framers, the founders. You have to put yourself in the political context, the legal context, and in the linguistic context, as well. Because there are some terms – terms of art, legal terminology – used at that time which don't quite correspond to the terminology we use today. Or at least, the original meaning has been lost.
Historically, if you go back to the colonial period, the pre-constitutional period, the Colonies generally speaking had no power and did not claim the power to coin money. There were some desultory attempts in Massachusetts and Virginia, but they generally fizzled out because that power was one of the prerogatives of the King and was jealously guarded. And if you read Blackstone's Commentaries on the Laws of England, which anyone who studies the Constitution should start with, because it puts you in that historical-legal context of Anglo-American law at the time, Blackstone discusses this prerogative of the King, which was essentially to take a standard, the pound-sterling was the one that England adopted, and then arithmetically regulate the values of all of the coinage with respect to that standard. Pretty simple process. Now, some of the English kings, Henry VIII especially, Edward VI – well, Edward VI was a minor, the people around him – engaged in debasement of the currency. And Blackstone went out of his way to show that if this wasn't a usurpation, it was certainly an aberration under the English constitution.
Silver was Currency
So this was the basic principles of coinage, but it didn't have much to do with the Colonies per se, because they weren't in a position to coin money. So the Colonies were using two sources of coinage, one, English coinage – of course, they were English colonies – and secondly, foreign coinage, which was coming in through foreign trade and in fact, the major foreign coinage that was used was coming from Central and South America. And that's why in a proclamation of Queen Anne in 1704 and in 1707 the Statute of Parliament, the Spanish milled dollar was established as the standard for all foreign coins within the Colonies. I emphasize the Spanish milled dollar, because you're going to hear about this again. The Spanish milled dollar was a silver coin, but actually the Spanish unit was the real, and there were eight reals in a silver dollar. In those days there wasn't a tremendous amount of coinage and people would literally cut Spanish dollars in little wedges. There were eight potential wedges and they were called “bits”, colloquially. Two of those bits made up a “quarter”. Four of those bits made up a “half”. You following this now? This is why Wall street until a few years ago, quoted stocks in “eighths”, “quarters” and “three-quarters”. They were referring back to this original monetary system.
So, here were the Colonies using the coinage that was supplied from England, and supplied through essentially the Spanish trade and part of that of course was the infamous triangle trade – the slave trade between New England, Africa and the West Indies.
The Colonies Start Generating Paper Money
But that wasn't really sufficient, or they didn't believe it was sufficient for their economy, so the Colonies started generating paper money. I emphasize those two words, because money was always considered coinage – gold or silver – and then there was this other thing, this paper money, which was a different concept entirely. And it's interesting to see how these statutes come out. Typically speaking, you'll see first a statute that deals with raising troops to engage in some kind of military adventure. Especially in New England where they're going after the French and the Indians in Canada. And they'll be the statute raising so many troops and all the logistics that are involved and then as part of that statute – or as the next statute in the line – is the statute for emitting bills of credit. That's the special term of art: a bill of credit. That's what they call paper money in those days. Because it was a bill, a note, a promise to pay – some kind of debt instrument based on “somebody”'s credit – somebody back there. And it was typically the credit of the colonial Administration and it might have been payed off in terms of taxes, so that you take your bill of credit and pay your taxes or other public dues with it. Or it might have been a redeemable bill of credit: At some point in the future, the colonial Administration would pay in gold or silver, supposedly the face value of those notes.
So these were the two forms that the colonial governments used. Parliament, however, did not like the emission of bills of credit. English merchants did not like to paid with bills of credit, especially colonial bills of credit that were made “legal tender”, that could be forced on a creditor. So Parliament passed two statutes in the middle 1600s extremely limiting the ability of the Colonies to emit these things, especially with legal-tender character.
The Period of the War of Independence
So there's the background. Now we come to the period of the War of Independence. The thirteen Colonies become thirteen independent States and start asserting for themselves the full panoply of governmental authority with respect to essentially everything. From potentially coining money – although I don't know that any of them really did – to raising troops and fighting a war. The first document of consequence you need to think about is the Articles of Confederation, because that is the precursor (00:10:00) to the Constitution. The Articles of Confederation created a Congress with both legislative and executive authority. And it granted to that Congress the power to coin money and to regulate the value of money that was coined by the States. Because the States were still claiming that they had this authority. Secondly it granted to Congress the power to borrow money or emit bills on thecredit of the United States. Notice how they were treated as two separate powers, the power to borrow or the power to emit bills to create this paper money or paper currency. And in fact, Congress used the second of those powers – it didn't do any coinage of consequence (I think it sent out a couple of basement alloy coins) – but they certainly used the power to emit bills. And they generated a paper money called the Continental. And I think everybody knows the economic history of the Continental and the phrase “not worth a Continental”. For one reason or another – especially over-issue and the fact that Congress had no power to tax, so it really didn't have a credible way to say it was going to redeem these things – the purchasing power of Continentals dropped terrificly and eventually they were anything like 212 to 1 when they were finally paid off.
Now the States also engaged in the printing of bills of credit of their own. So you had bills of credit coming out of Congress and you had bills of credit coming out of the States and you had essentially a near hyper-inflationary event going on at that period of time.
The war is on, you have stagflation, depreciation of all of these paper currencies.
During the war Congress had asked the States to make the Continentals legal tender, so that they could be forced merchants, especially so that they could buy materials for the war. And eventually that didn't work out too well even with price controls and all sorts of typical government interventions and they had to give that up. The legal tender provisions were repealed.
Monetary Measures of the Federal Convention
So now we're in a position of essentially economic chaos. And what's interesting is that the same people who had fomented this economic chaos, the same people who had been in the Continental Congress, the same people who had been in the State legislatures, many of them now repaired to Philadelphia for the federal convention to deal with the drafting – well actually it was supposed to be the amendment of the Articles of Confederation – they end up drafting a new constitution. And this has always struck me as a fascinating thing, because it's one of the few instances – maybe the only instance I know of in world history – where the politicians who had made these blunders turned around and said,”We made a mistake.” And then corrected it.
How did they correct this? Well, let's take a look at the provisions of the Constitution dealing with monetary affairs. First one:
Article I, Section 10, clause 1.
Article I, Section 10 contains three clauses, a whole slew of limitations of the powers of the States.
With respect to money:
No State shall coin money. They remove that power from the States, primarily because they didn't want thirteen types of coinage circulating.
No State shall emit bills of credit. Period. Any kind of bill of credit, whether legal tender bill of credit or not. They didn't want State paper money anymore.
No State shall make anything but gold and silver coin the tender in payment of debts. Interesting way to phrase it. '...anything but gold and silver...' meaning there's a reserved power and actually a duty to make gold and silver coin the tender in payment of debts. Why were they concerned about that? Well, what are debts? Typically, debts are some kind of obligations arising in the commercial realm; at least the most important of them do. So, dealing with commercial transactions, where would most commercial transactions, if they came to litigation going to be settled at that time? Well, in the State courts; there were no federal courts. So what they were looking at was a situation where the merchant class were going to go into the State courts, and the State courts were being told by the Constitution that when they issued judgment on this debt it had to be payable in gold and silver; it could not be made payable in something else, as a matter of State law.
So, now if you look at the State level, you have a gold and silver economy, absolutely. Where is this gold and silver going to come from? We'll get to that in a moment.
What about the congressional side, the Congress side? Article I, Section 8.
Article I, Section 8, clause 5.
Congress has delegated the power to coin money, regulate the value thereof, and of foreign coin. So we have: coinage taken away from the States; coinage given to Congress. It's pretty clear that Congress's power at least as a government to coin money is exclusive, because the States' power has been completely removed. This is interesting language: regulate the value thereof. That takes you back to Blackstone. Blackstone told us how to do that. If you have a unit of silver, and this coin has twice as much silver in it, then it's worth: two units. If it has half as much silver, then it's worth: half a unit. Whatever that unit may be. When you factored gold into the equation you have another element to look at, because the exchange rate between gold and silver in the market place is never 1 to 1; it's never been 1 to 1; it probably never will be 1 to 1. Gold has always been more valuable in the market place than silver. So you have to factor in that market ratio. So if a gold coin has the same weight as the silver unit and the ratio in the market is 10 to 1, that gold coin is worth 10 units – again it's simply arithmetic. That's regulation of the value.
And of foreign coin. Why were they interested in that? Because they wanted to monetize the entire gold and silver coin in the world as part of the American monetary system. And if you look at what happened early on in the area of tariffs, customs duties, you'll see exactly how that worked. Foreign merchants come into the United States, bring in their goods; they have to pay some customs duty. Paid in what? Well, typically they would pay in some foreign money. That's what they would have. So Congress passed a series of statutes right away setting out the various foreign monies that would be acceptable and what they were worth; the regulated value of those foreign monies in terms of the United States' standard. Of course, that brings you to this question: What is the United States' standard?
What is the United States' standard?
Well, the Constitution talks in two places about “dollars”:
Article I, Section 9, clause 1 – the so-called slave tax clause; a tax of 10 dollars on every person imported into the United States. Some of those “persons” might have been indentured servants, or possibly they were free people who would be brought in. But it was directed at the slave trade.
And then of course, the 7th Amendmentjury trial in any case in which the issue is of greater value than 25 dollars – 25 dollars or more. Does the Constitution define the word “dollars”? No! The Constitution's got a few words it doesn't define; one of the few that it does is “treason”. You look at that, because it's a good example because: they wanted to narrow the definition. The English definition of treason was extremely broad. It was a political crime, essentially. But most terms in the Constitution are not defined, you're supposed to know what they mean. And at that time people did know what they meant. The “dollars” they were talking about were what dollars? The dollars from 1704 and 1707 – what dollars? The Spanish milled dollars! How do we know they were talking about this? Because the Continental Congress of the Articles of Confederation adopted the Spanish milled dollar as the American dollar. It was Thomas Jefferson who proposed that. So, when the Constitution is written and refers to dollars, they're thinking back to what was done under the Articles of Confederation, proposed by Jefferson and adopted – they're thinking back to this Spanish milled dollar. And of course, if you go and try to find historically anything else that was called “the dollar”, you will get frustrated very quickly.
The Dollar Defined as Weight in Silver and Gold Eagle Defined in (Silver) Dollars
So, it is fairly clear that the standard in this system is going to be the dollar. What is a dollar?
Again we come Mr Jefferson and Mr Hamilton. This is one of the few things on which they agreed. During the first Washington Administration, Jefferson was Secretary of State and Hamilton was Secretary of the Treasury, and the question was: “All right. The dollar is the standard. What is a dollar.” These were pretty practical men, they went out and got some merchants and said: “Go out on to the market place and do” – a what we today would call a statistical sampling or analysis - “and get what appears to you to be a good sample of Spanish milled dollars that are circulating by tale in the economy.” “By tale” means that they are taken at sight. Because, obviously, when a coin is worn sufficiently, people don't take them at sight. Then they have go and be remelted somewhere. Some of  these would be pristine, some of them would be (00:20:00) worn to the point almost at which they would no longer be taken. They went out and did this analysis, melted them down, divided by the number of coins, and they said: “The average Spanish milled dollar that's now circulating in the economy contains 371 ¼ grains of silver.” And they put that into the coinage act, the Mint Act of 1792, which says that the dollar or unit shall be of the value of the Spanish milled dollar as the same is now current and containing on average 371 ¼ grains of silver. Notice the language! “… shall be of the value of the Spanish milled dollar…” What are they talking about? “Value” is weight in silver that it contains. Not “purchasing power” as we think of it today, but the actual weight of the coin. “... as the same is now current... “Current”, Latin: curro, currere; to run; running, accepted in the market place. So what they were doing in that statute is determining an historical fact. They were determining as an historical fact what that word in the Constitution meant. Because it was out there, in the market place.
Now, I suppose we could come back today and we could find that bar of melted silver that they had somewhere off with the Ark of the Covenant there hidden away in the archives and if we gave that to some top flight analytical chemist, we could come up with a more accurate number, like 371.32 or 370.99; whatever it would be. It's essentially irrelevant, because whatever the unit is, it's arbitrary. But it's fixed. Or it was fixed in 1792. “That's the unit.”
What are they going to do with the gold coinage? In that same statute they created gold coins. Did they call them dollars? Well of course not. You can't call something by a name that doesn't apply. They called them eagles. And they gave them values in dollars by looking at – what? Their weight and what was their exchange value in the market place at the time, which was about 15 to 1.
So there was the system. And there's absolutely no other way to interpret what was done, because actually there's a hundred something years of history that ties it all together. So there you have the coinage system. Now the problem in that coinage system was the gold-silver ratio. Because, as I said, the gold-silver ratio was not fixed; it never has been. Typically, for several hundred years before the American War of Independence, it fluctuated a bit between 14 ½ and 15. So it was relatively stable and given the lack of ability for information to be transferred from one place to another, it worked fairly well. So they adopted that principle, a bi-metallic standard, a fixed exchange ratio between silver and gold in that statute. And that was their mistake, their practical mistake. I'll tell you about that a little later.
The Constitution Does Not Allow Congress to Emit Bills of Credit
Now, what about paper currency? Well, go back to Article I, Section 10, clause 1: No State shall emit bills of credit. End of discussion. That was their word for paper currency. There shall be no official currency coming out of the States. But what about Congress? Remember, the Articles of Confederation had the power of Congress to borrow money or emit bills on the credit of the United States. And the first draft of the Constitution in the Federal Convention essentially borrowed that language directly from the Articles of Confederation. In fact, you'll find a lot of language in the original draft and even in the final draft of the Constitution that you can trace right back to the Articles of Confederation. So, it was proposed initially that Congress should have the power to borrow money and emit bills. And for those of us interested in reading legislative history – it relies on who you are, being connected to the Legislature – if you read Madison's notes on the debates regarding that provision of the Constitution, Article I, Section 8, clause 2, you'll see that there was a tremendous dispute over those three words: And emit bills. Some people wanted them left in, because they thought Congress should be able to emit paper currency in an emergency. Others wanted them absolutely to be removed. There were two delegates who said they would vote against the whole Constitution if those three words were not removed. And they were removed. And if you read Farrand's notes on the Constitutional Convention – he has Luther Martin's report to the Maryland legislature. Luther Martin was one of Maryland's delegates. And Martin makes it very clear. He says: “By the removal of those three words you have absolutely disabled Congress from emitting paper money”. Why? “Because Congress has only the power that is granted to it. Congress, this Congress especially, did not exist prior to the Constitution of the United States. So there is absolutely no way that you can find an implied authority in this entity when it was proposed to give it that power, and those three words were removed.”
The System of Free Coinage
So, 1788 – 1791, Bill of Rights, that period of time; what do we have? We have a system that's running in principle entirely on a gold and silver coin basis – as official money. And I say “official money” because nothing in the Constitution would preclude private parties from engaging in banking. And, typically, what banks did then – and they do now, at least through the Federal Reserve cartel – but individual banks did then was to emit their own bills of credit, private bills of credit, banknotes, which typically they promised to redeem in gold or silver, usually on demand, so that they pushed the circulation. But there is nothing in the Constitution that prevented that kind of activity, except in so far as it was fraudulent and then the Commerce Clause could come into play, or the State police powers could come into play. So you had a private sector monetary system that would depend upon honest bankers, and you had an official system that was based entirely on gold and silver. Why? Because that's the one system that prevents the government from redistributing wealth. Unless the government happens to have gold and silver mines, where does the coinage come from? It comes from the free market through some minter. And the system of minting that you find in the Mint Act of 1792 is what was called “free coinage”. The mint was open to all the gold and silver that might be brought from the market place. And it would cost the individual who brought that gold and silver nothing to have it converted into coinage – Maybe it's essentially treating coinage as a public utility. Or if the individual wanted to take the gold and silver immediately he had to pay a premium for that. But basically it was the government's role to mint gold and silver, and by putting a stamp on those coins – defined in the statute – to certify what the weight of the gold and silver was in the official coins that were coming out of the mint. Period. End of discussion.
Bimetallism
Now we go back to a point I was discussing a little bit earlier: the gold-silver ratio. Of course the gold-silver ratio changed – fairly quickly – after the 1792 Mint Act. It moved up. It went from 15 to the 16 level. So comes the statute of 1834, the Coinage Act of 1834. Congress now recognizes this problem, and they engaged in regulation of the older coinage. They changed the value of the older gold coinage, and they came up with a new gold coinage that would reflect this new 16 to 1 ratio. What was interesting is that at the time there was a Senate committee, the Coinage Committee, that recommended what I think everybody recognizes as the right thing to do. They said: “Look, let the gold coins flow.” (Our terms, not theirs.) “Don't give them a dollar denomination. We're calling them eagles anyway. Simply put a weight denomination on them, and let the market place determine from day to day what these gold coins are valued in terms of the silver dollar.” But apparently traditionalism overcame innovation, as it were, and so they stuck with the bi-metallic ratio. And apparently there was also lurking in the background the idea that if they used that fixed ratio they'd be able to put pressure on the Bank of the United States. So there was a political brouhaha in the background.
So there was a point at which a great deal of future difficulties could have been avoided. But weren't.
The next example of that is 1849. A gold dollar was coined. Very small coin. Like a button. And in principle I suppose one could say, well, what you're talking about there is a gold coin that has the value of a dollar. That's all right. But, in fact, it began to have people think of a gold dollar as opposed to a silver dollar, because “silver dollar” is a redundancy now. So now this is the beginning of the gold-silver political controversy, which eventually breaks out in a large scale– after the Civil War, in 1873. (00:30:00)
Private Paper Money Only
Now let's get back to paper money. No paper money being generated by the States, no paper money being generated by the Treasury, paper money being generated by the banks. But there was this – we call it an incestuous relationship – between Congress and the banking system. Alexander Hamilton said it very well, he said: “We need to have the merchants on the side of the government, and to have the merchants on the side of the government we need to give them a piece of special interest legislation.” He didn't put it quite that way, but that's what he meant. And the Bank of the United States was one of those pieces of special interest legislation. It was a private entity, but the government of the United States had some influence over the selection of the directors. And it was generating it's own banknotes. We had the First Bank of the United States, that wasn't … we had the Second Bank of the United States – famous bank fight with [president Andrew] Jackson. And the Charter was not renewed.
By the time we get to the Civil War, you don't even have a connection between the government of the United States and private banking. You have these two episodes and then they're gone. At the State level you had a lot of private State banks chartered by the State governments. So the system is pretty much the same as it was at the beginning.
The Civil War Period
Now comes the Civil War. The Union government had a problem. It was an unpopular war. There were a lot of Southern sympathizers, even to the extent of being the so-called Copperheads, really sympathizers with the South. The great difficulty in raising taxation to the level necessary to pay for this war. The banks were charging astronomical rates of interest, so now the Union Congress found itself in a fiscal squeeze. What do they do? Well, Salmon P. Chase, the Secretary of the Treasury comes forward and says, “Aha, we're going to do the same thing I told you they did during the Colonial period. You know, when they had a war, what was the first thing they did after they raised the troops? They printed paper money!” So, February of 1862, the first paper money under the government of the United States under the Constitution – orderly under the Constitution – is emitted. The so-called “greenbacks” because on one side they were printed with green ink. And these were made legal tender and lawful money: legal tender for all payment of all debts and lawful money. Supposedly they were going to be redeemed, but they weren't going to be redeemed during the war, because the government wasn't redeeming anything. There was what's called the suspension of specie payments during the war.
So now we have gold and silver coinage and the irredeemable legal tender paper notes. Comes the end of the war. You had two political – parties, if you will. You had a greenback party, a greenback movement that wanted to expand the paper money; who thought it was a great idea. And then you had a sound money party that wanted to redeem and then remove the paper money entirely. So they compromise. And the compromise was that the paper money would be redeemed, as it came into the Treasury, for gold and silver coin, but then the Treasury could re-emit that paper money. And here's where the Supreme Court comes into play because there were two cases dealing with the constitutionality of paper money. The first is the Knox case of 1871, and there's the Juilliard case, of 1884, I guess. The question in the Knox case was: Is this stuff constitutional? There was a 5 to 4 decision. Interestingly, Salmon P. Chase had become the Chief Justice of the Supreme Court in the interim. But he was in the minority, he said, “Oh no, this was wrong. This is unconstitutional. I should never have done this.” But it didn't matter. There were a bunch of railroad lawyers on the Court by then, Republicans and … Not Republicans, but a political point of view in this. And they said, “Look, this was necessary to win the war. It was emergency legislation that was necessary to win the war. And besides we can't go back now, declare unconstitutional and unwind all of those contracts made in it.” Now, that was false! Because, in fact, there was a whole series of cases in which they unwound contracts that had been made in Confederate money and had come up through the court system to determine whether those contracts could be enforced. But that was the basis for an emergency piece of legislation. Well now comes the readmission of the Treasury notes. And somebody noticed: “Wait a minute. We're not in an emergency anymore, there's no war going on here.” There was another challenge: the Juilliard v Greenman case. The Supreme Court said: “Weeeell, we said that about an emergency then, but actually it's for Congress to decide when it should do this.” You see, this is the incremental way the Constitution has been subverted. Really. And I lay it all at the doorstep of the Supreme Court. They don't operate properly in dealing with the Constitution. They treat the Constitution as some communal document, which it isn't. But anyway. There you have it.
Government Paper Money Becomes Permanent
So now we have paper money as a permanent fixture in the system. But, it's paper money that is redeemable in gold or silver – even the earlier decision had pointed that out – and it's paper money that issues from – where? From the United States Treasury. Not from a private institution of some kind. Meanwhile the banks are coming into closer involvement with the government. Civil War – you have the National Currency Act, the creation of the National Bank system; we still have those banks: Chase Manhattan? National bank. Mercovia? National bank. (Is that still around, Mercovia? Well, whatever.) The national banks comes from the Civil War, in 1863 and 1864, two statutes were passed. That system was kind of a cartel, because you had the rural banks and the small city banks and the big city banks. The rural banks were supposed to deposit their money at the larger banks and the larger banks at the big city banks which are in New York and Chicago. So it was a way to essentially focus financial resources behind the big players, essentially in Wall street and Chicago. But it was limited because the currency depended upon the banks buying US bonds and depositing the bonds with the Treasury, and then they could emit currency 90 percent of the value of their bonds. And this was at a period of time when the American people were not particularly interested in extending public indebtedness. They had huge public indebtedness from the Civil War. So there was a restriction on the banks. Well, banks don't like restrictions on the emission of currency, because – How do they make their money? – they emit currency and interest, right? So the more they can emit, the more return they make. They didn't like that. Well, fractional reserve banking; you probably heard Joe Salerno, he'll tell you that fractional reserve banking is an inherently unstable process, so you had a series of bank crises from the Civil War through to the turn of the 20th century, eventually the big one, 1907. During this period of time the bankers came up with the idea that, “Well, we need a central bank. This cartel structure we have is too loose, we need to bring it together with a lender of last resort, a capstone.” And this is the basis of the Federal Reserve System.
Now, the Federal Reserve System is interesting because Federal Reserve notes are not simply notes of a private banking system or a bank cartel or private, individual banks, although all the Federal Reserve regional banks and the commercial banks, are all private institutions, thank you very much. Federal Reserve notes were made obligations of the United States! So now you have the American people om the hook for this banking system.
Now, they were also originally to be redeemed in lawful money or gold. But the banks actually didn't have to redeem in gold, the Treasury had to redeem in gold. So,once again you had the US Treasury on the hook, as the ultimate surety of this system. The system was sold on the basis that this was scientific management of currency. We would no longer have depressions, we would no longer have stringencies, we would no longer have inflations. All that stuff that we'd had in the 19th century would be gone. Twenty years later: the greatest depression the world had ever seen... OK.
Now what's fascinating here is – I'm gonna have to stop in a moment, I'm just gonna tell you about Franklin Roosevelt – here Franklin Roosevelt comes in. And what he wanted to do is raise prices. That was the theory of the New Deal: prices are being driven down by the Depression, so we to have raise prices, so we're gonna kill pigs and poor milk in the streets and do a lot of stuff to raise prices. And one of the ways he wanted to raise prices was to depreciate the value of the gold currency. The gold dollar – the dollar actually of the Coinage Act of 1900 which had finally settled on this gold unit. He wanted to depreciate that value. And he did that – how? He did that by seizing all the gold from the American people, and then simply putting an arbitrary value on gold from day to day until he came up to $35 an ounce. You ought to read how he did that. Henry Morgenthau, the Secretary of the Treasury would sometimes come in to Roosevelt, and Roosevelt was lying in bed, “How much are we gonna put it up today, Henry? How about 25 cents more?” “OK. Let's do that.” It's gonna be arbitrary, right?
Remember how I told you that the value of currency, of money was supposed to be set? Well, the ratio between gold and silver in the 1930s never went below 50 to 1. So, if Roosevelt had simply come in...If I'd been Roosevelt's advisor I would have said, “Franklin, here's what we have to do. We have the wrong ratio between gold and silver at 16 to 1. If we put in the correct ratio, let's say 51 to 1, that will effectively depreciate the gold coinage versus (00:40:00) silver, and we'll get what you want, constitutionally! We won't have to seize the gold from the American people, and we won't have to prohibit gold clause contracts, and we won't have to have this huge political brouhaha, if we would just follow the Constitution. And, oh, by the way, we can depreciate it far more than Congress is willing to let you depreciate it now. They're only willing to let you depreciate it 60 percent. We can depreciate it 76 percent.” so it would really have been valuable if Franklin Roosevelt and Henry Morgenthau and the people around them had known a little bit – just a little bit! – about the Constitutional principles of money.
So where are we today. The answer is, we have an irredeemable paper currency – actually an electronic currency, because most of it is just generated on electronic account books – coming out of a private banking cartel for which the American people are on the hook, in some kind of bail-out. Because, of course, the bank cartel comes to us and says, “Oh, we've made terrible mistakes. We'll admit that and now they may be fatal to the economy, if you don't bail us out.” And of course, “they'll be worse next year. And you can bail us out next year...” – this thing just perpetuates. So this is the system we have now. And I would suggest that it's even worse than the worst events that occurred under the Colonial and State systems prior to the Constitution. Because there's absolutely no control on this system whatsoever. Except for one – actually two: the States can take action. You're gonna see, I think, in the next couple of years, action being taken by the States to deal with alternative currencies – Section 30 of the Federal Reserve Act. You know what Section 30 does? Section 30 of the Federal Reserve Act: Congress retains the right to alter, amend or repeal legislation at any time. Why is that even there? In most of the statutes you people see, there's no statute like that. “Congress retains the right to repeal this” Of course Congress has the right to repeal. Because they recognized that those banks were private entities and by creating this charter and by giving them these powers some smart lawyer in the future might come along and say, “Wait a minute. You can't take these away! Because you've made a contract with us.” Actually the Supreme Court said that along time ago, that the Legislature makes these arrangements, maybe a contractual arrangement, and it cannot be rescinded. So Congress put this in – it's also in the Social Security Act, by the way, or the Retirement Act or a number of these provisions, where Congress recognizes it might have a problem in changing the terms of the deal, so it puts that kind of language in there. That means that the Federal Reserve system, the Federal Reserve note is what John Exter, now deceased, pretty famous banker, called it, it's an I-Owe-You-Nothing currency in the truest sense of the word. The banks don't owe you anything. And Congress can turn around and tell you it owes you nothing too. So, I'd suggest that you people and the people you talk to should begin thinking about just what we are going to do to correct this situation, before the roof falls in.
Now, I'll take whatever questions you have.  


Questions and Answers:

First question: [Inaudible]

Edwin Vieira: (00:43:30) The first question is of course, how long? How long before the roof falls in?
Well, I don't predict those things, but I'm willing to predict this: It will not be a depressionary phenomenon, if will be a hyper-inflationary phenomenon. Won't necessarily be in this country, it could start in Europe. But a hyper-inflationary phenomenon. What I mean by that is 50 percent depreciation a month, minimum. You always come out of every hyper-inflationary phenomenon, at least to my knowledge in the world – except for one, because we had one during the War of Independence, except for that one – some kind of police state, a dictatorial system. Always. Because the chaos that's generated by that event – especially at this time you have the most complicated price structure in the history of the world. It depends entirely on essentially a stable monetary unit of some kind. When you blow that monetary unit out, what happens? The price structure collapses. You go to barter? How do you go to barter? What are the number of products out there? How do you settle on a product, a series of products, a small number of products to be used as the bartering medium? It's essentially an impossibility.
So we're looking at an unprecedented situation. If this currency system goes into hyper-inflation, you're gonna have an economic collapse, the world just – you can't contemplate what's it going to be like. That's why I'm saying, somebody has to begin to think what would be the alternative currency if this one goes down. And don't tell me it won't go down, it's already gone down once, in 1932. Well, 1930 to 1932. It's already gone down once. And that was on a 40 percent gold reserve, thank you very much.
40 percent behind the notes and 35 percent behind the demand deposits in the Federal Reserve regional banks. And that wasn't enough. Now you have no reserve. So this is like the Titanic. And the Titanic had the one possibility that someone might have gotten there in time. There's nobody coming to help us. It's going to have to be done – I'm sorry to say – right here. [Capitol Hill] Because the system is now essentially out of control. And I think you see that especially in Europe now. I've been watching the Italian situation. You can smell the panic coming over the Internet, from this. And Italians you know, they're kinda voluble. But these are mostly not Italians that are panicking, it's actually Germans. But really you can smell it, coming out of Europe. And who's gonna bail them out? Do we have a guess as to who's gonna do that? It's gonna be Mr Bernancke. Because they cannot face – and I think correctly so – the consequences of a depression. Can you imagine what a 1930s style depression in this country would be like? That's what they won't have happened. And the one tool they have that they think can prevent that in the short term is – what? Quantitative easing. Inflation. Generating money. Paper currency. Bills of credit. Well, bills of discredit, because they're not gonna be paid. We keep generating this stuff and we hope that something will happen. We're playing for time, financially. But think what Machiavelli has said, “That's a fallacy. Time brings all things, bad as well as good.”
And the only solution here, I think, is to come up with an alternative currency. A lot of people have proposed exactly how to do this. This is not something that's difficult. On the shelf technology. We can set this thing up in 30 to 60 days after the statute is passed. An alternative sound currency based on silver and gold. Start using that in the market place. Start transitioning the governments into using it for purposes of taxation and spending. And let the banks figure out how to solve their own problem. Because we can't figure it out. It's a problem of what's called rational economic calculation. Which is the problem of all central planning. There is no way from the top down how to reform this system, it has to be reformed from the bottom up, through the market place. And to do that you have to give the market place an alternative, sound currency to generate a price structure that works. Which we're going to discover very shortly we do not have.
Interesting problem, you know. I've been doing this for a long time and I never thought it would get to this. I thought I'd miss out. I'm watching it. But no. I wouldn't want to be anywhere else. It should be fascinating to see how this plays out.
Second question: Just curious whether you have any view with regard to the sort of little baby steps the States take, you talked perhaps Virginia as well, to perhaps protect themselves from their own government and to give themselves the leeway to do what you suggested for themselves in the event that the US economy gets so unstable that they need to protect their own folks and their own economies.

Edwin Vieira: (00:48:49) Well, yeah, I know about these things because I've been involved in a lot of them going back several years. New Hampshire to begin with, and then Montana. Virginia, we're trying to get them to...the Virginia State Legislature came up with a commission to study this problem, primarily to educate the legislators. In most States the legislators have never thought about this. Most State legislators treat it as some kind of a Federal problem, that doesn't relate to them. But basically the idea is exactly what I said: the States adopts an alternative currency unit which is actual silver, or actual gold. I'd like to see that done on the electronic basis because that already has been tested on the market place. Those system are there, they work. You can funnel any kind of gold and silver into the [market.]
It doesn't have to be a particular kind of coinage, it can also be bullion. And they're capable of working down to very small amounts. One of them – one of the private companies out there – Goldmoney.com founded by a feller by the name of James Turk, whom I've known for a long time. They're down now to a thousandth of a gram of gold, and a thousandth of a gram of silver, that they'll use in trans actions: Well, now you're making small change in gold. And that was always the problem in the coinage era. (00:50:00) You had coins of certain sizes, but how did it work out in between? You'd have some kind of token coins, some kind of paper credit, or whatever; it was rather cumbersome. And if you look at it today, it's even worse; because, what's the value of an American liberty? Silver dollar, one ounce; the coins that are now coming out of the Mint under 1985 Act? Well, it's somewhere between 35 and 40 Federal Reserve notes [paper dollar], right? So your one dollar silver piece is worth 35 of these other things in the market. That's not going to be that useful in the supermarket. Well, it will be later, when inflation sets in, but right now it isn't. Or the American eagle, the gold coin; that'll be close to $2000 now, one ounce of gold in coin form. So if you look at the coinage system we have, once again because Congress – because they're the ones that are supposed to be doing the coinage here – has not kept up to date with our problem, we have a coinage system that really is not workable. The States can't coin money, so we couldn't see any reform there. But the States can make gold and silver legal tender in the payment of debts, and they can certainly use these electronic systems. The supreme Court already ruled on that twice. Not on electronically, but they ruled on the right of the States to have an alternative currency of their own. So we don't have to worry on the legality of the thing. And if that were done – let's say it were done in Virginia – don't wanna take some … I mean Montana is kind of a backwater, people might not pay attention to it, but Virginia is difficult to ignore; here's Virginia, right next door to DC, right? – Virginia does this, what do you think the influx of capital into Virginia is going to be? Virginia will be the only polity in the entire world with a sound money system! And you don't think that other States, that border Virginia will say: “Oh, my goodness, it will be in our interest to pick this up too, because we have cross border trade.” And on an on it goes. And of course, this particular system, if you use the electronic system – international trade...Because everybody can be tied into the Internet tool – that's the way it runs. So, as I told these legislators, I said: “Listen, 30, 60, 90 days after the statute – tell me how fast you want it done – we can have this up and running.” And what it would mean is that the average Virginian – 'cos you'd have to tell them to do this – would get a debit card, and he'd be told how he'd go on the Internet and sign up for this; transfer his funds from his regular bank account into this; all very simple. You don't force him. If he wants to do it, fine, if not … But he has to have the capability. And then the State simply starts taxing in the alternative currency. And paying out from that tax fund to creditors of the State, first to whoever asks for it. What do you think is going to happen? Those creditors are going to deplete that fund as fast as it is built up. And then the Treasurer is going to come back to the General Assembly in Virginia and say: “I need to expand the tax base here.” And pretty soon you'll have the Commonwealth of Virginia on a gold and silver basis treating Federal Reserve notes as a foreign currency – because hey may need those Federal Reserve notes for something. And you'll see the economy of Virginia following along with this, because the State has given them the mechanism and the State of course, is a big player in the State economy – a lot of money passes through State finance. Now you have shown how it can work.
And my view of the thing is, if people have two choices, a relatively sound currency here and a rotting vegetable currency there, which one are they going to choose? Well, they'll choose this one, of course. That's the reversal of Gresham's Law. Gresham's Law says what? Bad money drives good [money] out of circulation. That's how it's usually formulated? (It's actually Aristophanes' Law, I think it's in the play The Frogs. It goes back to the ancient Greeks. Gresham had nothing to do with it.) Why is that true? I have good money in my one pocket and bad money in the other, and you're willing to take money, what am I gonna give you? The bad money, right? Think of Mammie with Jimmy, and there is Jimmy and Billie playing in the sandbox. And Billie is crying, 'cos Jimmie won't let Billie play with one of his toy soldiers, and Mammie says, “Be fair Jimmy, let 'm play with one of your toy soldiers.” With one is he gonna give to the other child? The nice one that's beautifully painted, or the other one with one arm broken off and the head that's twisted. You tell me. That's Gresham's Law. It's at the kindergarten level of intelligence. But it works the other way too. If I'm going to you to make a contract, I'm going to demand what? The bad money or the good money? I'm going to demand the good money, right? So we can reverse this whole system once you put into play somewhere a significant player in the market place – has to be a fairly large size – that's using this good money and we can force that through taxation. Start off with a certain amount of State taxation.
Congress can do this too.
Maybe I'm being facetious, but in principle Congress can do this too. And I should think Congress would have more understanding of this problem, I mean, it's their power we're talking about, monetary power. The difficulty I always have with State legislators – always talking to them – they say: “We can't do that. States can't do that.” So I say: “Well, wait a minute. Article I, Section 10, …” We go through this little litany of constitutional principles and then eventually the little light bulb comes on over their head: “Oh, yeah, we can do that.” And then there's the problem: “What's the six o'clock news gonna say about me? That I'm a gold bug, making fun of me.” That type of thing. You're getting into the political problem there.
But as a practical solution – I shouldn't say solution, there is no solution, this thing is gonna happen; we can't stop it from happening – as a practical direction, putting a floor under, mitigating, the damage, I'm willing to bet a stack of cougourians(?) this high this is the only way it can be done. If someone can think of another way that doesn't involve Congress passing ...– [laughs] I rack my brain … If someone came to me and offered me some huge fee to write a statute to correct the Federal Reserve problem, through the Federal Reserve, could I do it? No. I think I'd say “I can't take the money, I can't do it. It won't work. There's no way we can correct that.” The market has to correct it. And the market won't correct it, unless it has an alternative to work with. Wasn't it Archimedes who said: “Give me a place to stand and I will move the earth with my lever.” We need a place to stand monetarily. We need the alternative currency.
An example: Go back to Weimar Germany; everybody remembers Weimar Germany, right? Six months: June, July till the end of November, they blew the currency out. An egg that cost 80,000 marks in June – they created a lot of inflation during the war and immediately after the war – 80,000 marks was like a trillion marks by the end of November. And the first week of December the currency was gone. How did they survive? Because they had a whole slew of alternative currencies circulating in Germany. From other European countries, from the United States, from England – England wasn't considered a European country – and people using these and making contracts in them. So they had a kind of black price structure in alternative currencies. So when that mark collapsed the entire economy didn't go with it.

Third question: So you're assuming that we still keep the Federal Reserve but States can create their own currency? But then how will the big banks themselves, will they stop being a member given that the States will have to create their own State Bank or will they be a member of the Federal Reserve?

Edwin Vieira: (00:57:57) Well, there would be a State Depository to deal with the alternative currency, because the alternative currency system is not really banking, it's warehousing. What I anticipate would happen is – if I were writing the complete statute for … I'd say: Look, we need to set up some private institutions dealing with what used to be called “real bills”. 30, 60, 90 day banknotes based on real commodities, because that kind of creates an underpinning to the use of gold and silver. In a lot of transactions you don't need to use gold and silver, you use real bills. And those private institutions I would imagine at some stage they might also at some stage come into the Depository. That'll be the loan function. See, the depository function is the warehousing function. The loan function is a different situation and you can have a loan bank which is paying on demand. The Depository obviously is paying on demand, paying immediately, electronically. So you'd set up banks dealing with the 30, 60, 90 day real bills, and you'd set up banks – or it could be the same banks – who set up accounts that would be longer term. But the fractional reserve aspect of it has to be cut out entirely. That's the devil in the detail, as the word goes. You cannot lend short and borrow long for very long. That's why fractional reserve systems and banks have always failed, because the notes are out there to be paid on demand, and they don't have a hundred percent reserve to pay those notes. Leaving aside if that were fraudulent or not, I guess it wouldn't be if people were completely told about it. But the other assets that might be fed into that pool, they're not on demand. Who knows how long those assets might be until they're paid. The banks might very well get onto these squeezes, because they extend themselves too much. And there's only one way to get around that and that's to prevent it at the beginning.
Our problem is, we painted (01:00:00) ourselves into a – well, I don't want to include myself. Somebody out there has painted me into a corner, and you as well. We're painted into this corner, and either we're gonna go down with the Titanic, or we're gonna get in a lifeboat and row away. That's the difference between the Titanic situation and our situation: on the Titanic they didn't have enough lifeboats and they didn't have a way to build any more. We don't have enough lifeboats now, but we have 50 ways to build them. This can be done at the State level. And I don't say there won't be a lot of wailing and gnashing of teeth, economically. Or that a lot of people won't be very sorry that we put up this system and ran it as long as we did and ran it into the ground. But that's not my problem. My problem is, I'm sort of the salvage yard guy, here. You brought me this mess, and I say: “I'll see what I can do.” Or like trauma surgery, “You've got to lose the leg. Don't blame me. You shouldn't have been driving drunk.”
Oh, I don't want to sound so pessimistic, but do you know what the definition of a pessimist is? He's an optimist who knows the facts.
Thank you.


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